[MUSIC PLAYING] NAPHEESA COLLIER: Since we're on the topic of financial literacy, it's so important. And it's able to get people out of cycles that maybe they've been in for generations. Financial literacy could be the difference between how they lived before and then creating that generational wealth for their family. 

JESS SIMS: Absolutely. And it's such a-- I was having a conversation with one of my friends not too long ago, actually. There's so much don't talk about money with people. 

NAPHEESA COLLIER: What's your salary? Yeah. 

JESS SIMS: There's so much shame attached to it. And it's like, shame loves people who are quiet because that's where the shame grows. And if you are quiet, you're not going to get the help, and you're not going to get the resources and the support that you may need. 

So I think we should talk about money more. And it's important to. And I think that once you put it out into the ether, you free yourself from that because it holds so many people back. 

NAPHEESA COLLIER: That's so true. And I feel like we're really in the era of that. There was shame around mental health that was so stigmatized. LGBTQ was so stigmatized. 

Money should be in that group where it's something that in the past was so shameful for us. But we should bring it to the light because there's nothing shameful about it. Through talking to each other is how we learn, how we get better, and how we see that you're not alone. Other people are going through this, and we can help each other get out of it. 

JESS SIMS: Right. Yeah. It's like people are afraid to show their budgets. I was asked, how much money do you spend on food? I'm like, you don't want to know. 

But I'm like, actually, let me tell you how much money I spend on food. But yeah, I think the more we talk about it, the more we normalize it. And then we can grow from it. 

NAPHEESA COLLIER: Absolutely